The case for not firing spav

C

codestar

M&G Gift Contributor
Before I start I think he merits firing. Especially with the state of the defense.

Anyway.


Here are some reasons why he shouldn't be fired. Feel free to come up with some of your own.

it's ok to be bad, but not to be toxic.

There are lots of bad football teams. Bad football teams turn into good football teams all the time. It goes the other way as well. Fans, coaches, and players understand that sustained success is difficult. That's why coaches do get fired , things get worked out, and shit gets cycled.

Being a 3-4 win team isn't that bad for your brand. Arkansas has been struggling for years, Iowa st previous had been middle of the pack at best. I can pick better examples if you like but you probably know a team that was on a 4-5 year losing streak then put together a killer season.

What doesn't work is becoming known as the school that doesn't support the coaches and players. Unfortunately our brand is so bad that no one cares if we lose. No one is suprised and no one is downgrading their opinions of us. What will do that is if we fire our 3rd coach in 9 years, and our 2md coach halfway through a season. We absolutely cannot become the school good coaches avoid. We are arguably the worst job in FBS already. As painful as it is watch spav and co finish out a 2 win season isn't the worst thing that can happen to bobcat football. Y'all don't want to believe it but the team IS better than in the last six years. Our opponent were also just better last year and this year. Worse teams than EMU have blown us out before, we've lost on the road to worse teams than FIU. (Our first FBS road win in 5 years).

Everyone needs to take a chill pill and sit tight for the new president and what happens with the AD. I think the right move is to use the fan angry to force Zac Spav out. He is clearly out of his league. We need a real DC. Peeler is great, spavs play calling ... Will be better once we have a QB that opens up the playbook.

What we really need is to hang tight ... Try and repair relationships with highschool coaches ... Maybe use the anger to make sure problems with athletic trainers and nutrition are properly addressed instead of just swapping coaches.

Firing Withers to hire spav instead of fixing our problems with adequate funding and a proper AD is a lot like benching Brady to save the season.

Sure it might help 1-2 things but it isn't the reason we are losing. I fear the same is true for Jake spav. Gotta make him fire his brother, gotta fix issues with athletic trainers (how do we have so many injuries?), Gotta feed our boys properly.

I'm not saying to settle for mediocrity. I'm saying choices have been made already that we can't undo. Making a swap at coaching, either at the end of this year or mid season could do long term damage without much upside. Letting spav lose for a year or more doesn't hurt our brand because frankly it's too low to damage.
 
LT Spider

LT Spider

Active member
“Firing Withers to hire spav instead of fixing our problems with adequate funding and a proper AD”

This is the key point to me. Spav seems out of his league and his brother is a terrible DC. But we need to quit rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic. Hiring another coach in a completely dysfunctional system is an expensive way to end up in the same spot 3 years later.
 
D

Donor1

New member
The model for success should be Coastal Carolina or UH....i.e money. I am a not an inconsequential donor to TX State but I am not Tilman Fertitta. I would propose a consortium of passionate donors be assembled to create a fund for support monies to enhance facilities and supplement costs associated with upgrading the program...including personnel.
 
DrumCat

DrumCat

Active member
Donor1 said:
The model for success should be Coastal Carolina or UH....i.e money. I am a not an inconsequential donor to TX State but I am not Tilman Fertitta. I would propose a consortium of passionate donors be assembled to create a fund for support monies to enhance facilities and supplement costs associated with upgrading the program...including personnel.
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This is a great idea. If only there was an individual to organize this, perhaps someone who could provide direction to the department of athletics 🤔🤔🤔

Seriously though, I don't think throwing money at the problem will fix it until DC comes out with an organized plan of how the money will be used. I want to know it's upgrading facilities rather than lining the pockets of people like Shoemake and Karlick.
 
LT Spider

LT Spider

Active member
I agree with both of the last two posts. We need to create a comprehensive 10 year plan with yearly benchmarks to completely overhaul the department and facilities. Then there should be aggressive outreach to all donors with a board of large donors that have a seat at the table. Ideally this would be led by the AD and new president.
 
C

codestar

M&G Gift Contributor
LT Spider said:
A lot of the fixes we need to win require money.

Getting money typically requires winning.

Round and round we go……until something interrupts the cycle.
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And firing spav will cost us money we don't have. I think Withers buyout money would have been better spent on a proper full time trainers, better resources for recruiting, etc.

Instead Larry hit the nuclear button to save his job and left this flaming pile of dog crap on the universities door step on his way out the door.

Spav was probably too young for this job, whatever chance he had at succeeding has been hampered by his ankle chain of an older brother.

I want to win now, I also want to win later. I think firing spav, as justified as it might be for some of his choices will dig us in deeper. Also, and not for nothing ... There is a lot of football left to be played. He knows how deep of shit he is in. Lets see him coach like his life depends on it.
 
C

codestar

M&G Gift Contributor
cpwhite said:
Indeed, as always. So, would you like to start a new 'Uniform' or a 'What Bowl Game Are We Going To' thread burying everyone's heads in the sand for yet another year or shall I?
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We could still end up in a bowl game. Our team probably does have the talent to do it ... I just don't know if we have the coaches. The Sunbelt seems to be regressing again and we just need to catch the right teams in the same bad spots we have fallen into.

Who knows. I still predict a 4-6 win season. Which would be our best season in 8 years.
 
Goldievirtuoso

Goldievirtuoso

M&G Gift Contributor
codestar said:
And firing spav will cost us money we don't have. I think Withers buyout money would have been better spent on a proper full time trainers, better resources for recruiting, etc.

Instead Larry hit the nuclear button to save his job and left this flaming pile of dog crap on the universities door step on his way out the door.

Spav was probably too young for this job, whatever chance he had at succeeding has been hampered by his ankle chain of an older brother.

I want to win now, I also want to win later. I think firing spav, as justified as it might be for some of his choices will dig us in deeper. Also, and not for nothing ... There is a lot of football left to be played. He knows how deep of shit he is in. Lets see him coach like his life depends on it.
Click to expand...
This is definitely an angle that we need to seriously consider. I want, so badly, for DC to make immediate improvements to our training facilities. If he could we could objectively evaluate coaches better. As bad as our last couple of coaches have been, they haven't been able to overcome our own shortcomings, fair or not.
 
J

John Dutton

Active member
codestar said:
Before I start I think he merits firing. Especially with the state of the defense.

Anyway.


Here are some reasons why he shouldn't be fired. Feel free to come up with some of your own.

it's ok to be bad, but not to be toxic.

There are lots of bad football teams. Bad football teams turn into good football teams all the time. It goes the other way as well. Fans, coaches, and players understand that sustained success is difficult. That's why coaches do get fired , things get worked out, and shit gets cycled.

Being a 3-4 win team isn't that bad for your brand. Arkansas has been struggling for years, Iowa st previous had been middle of the pack at best. I can pick better examples if you like but you probably know a team that was on a 4-5 year losing streak then put together a killer season.

What doesn't work is becoming known as the school that doesn't support the coaches and players. Unfortunately our brand is so bad that no one cares if we lose. No one is suprised and no one is downgrading their opinions of us. What will do that is if we fire our 3rd coach in 9 years, and our 2md coach halfway through a season. We absolutely cannot become the school good coaches avoid. We are arguably the worst job in FBS already. As painful as it is watch spav and co finish out a 2 win season isn't the worst thing that can happen to bobcat football. Y'all don't want to believe it but the team IS better than in the last six years. Our opponent were also just better last year and this year. Worse teams than EMU have blown us out before, we've lost on the road to worse teams than FIU. (Our first FBS road win in 5 years).

Everyone needs to take a chill pill and sit tight for the new president and what happens with the AD. I think the right move is to use the fan angry to force Zac Spav out. He is clearly out of his league. We need a real DC. Peeler is great, spavs play calling ... Will be better once we have a QB that opens up the playbook.

What we really need is to hang tight ... Try and repair relationships with highschool coaches ... Maybe use the anger to make sure problems with athletic trainers and nutrition are properly addressed instead of just swapping coaches.

Firing Withers to hire spav instead of fixing our problems with adequate funding and a proper AD is a lot like benching Brady to save the season.

Sure it might help 1-2 things but it isn't the reason we are losing. I fear the same is true for Jake spav. Gotta make him fire his brother, gotta fix issues with athletic trainers (how do we have so many injuries?), Gotta feed our boys properly.

I'm not saying to settle for mediocrity. I'm saying choices have been made already that we can't undo. Making a swap at coaching, either at the end of this year or mid season could do long term damage without much upside. Letting spav lose for a year or more doesn't hurt our brand because frankly it's too low to damage.
Click to expand...
I’m not sure there is a coach out there that could miraculously turn this program around. I was against the Spav hire in the beginning but became a fan. My takes on his positives and negatives:
Positives:
He is charismatic and well spoken in press conferences and with the media. You would think this would bode well as a recruiter for players / parents.
His career is on the line and I have no doubt he is giving 100%
Negatives:
Not the air raid I was expecting. I was warned by Aggies that he loves his bubble screens. I like the offense that UIW schooled us on. Get the ball out quick and throw the ball down the field
Defense showed signs of improvement and now has digressed. Cue the depth excuses. I thought we solved that problem.

Our biggest problem is fan apathy which has been caused by years of losing. How can Spav or any cosch land top recruits with no fans in the stands. These kids want to showcase their talents not to be booed or ripped on a fan forum. If you go to even an App State game, it’s a production from start to finish but it starts with winning.

Fingers crossed that Spa.v doesn’t let these kids mail it in because we need some wins.
 
LT Spider

LT Spider

Active member
We are constantly searching for a coach that can work miracles to get us to a bowl game. Instead of trying to find the needle in the haystack coach, let’s build an athletic department where most coaches can be successful because they have the resources they need. Winning becomes a realistic expectation rather than working some voodoo then bouncing to the next job while we search for another miracle worker.
 
Bobcat17

Bobcat17

Active member
M&G Collective Member
A much more successful SBC football program just fired their coach 4 games in. Georgia Southern moving on from Lunsford shows the high level of football expectations the university has for itself.
 
C

codestar

M&G Gift Contributor
Bobcat17 said:
A much more successful SBC football program just fired their coach 4 games in. Georgia Southern moving on from Lunsford shows the high level of football expectations the university has for itself.
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right, but context matters. We *are not* successful, we have not been successful. We have made a habit of cutting coaches short and underfunding their efforts.
 
SWTRefugee

SWTRefugee

M&G Gift Contributor
Which program is in better hands, ours with Spav or ULM’s with Terry Bowden? What makes equally moribund ULM desirable to Bowden and Rich Rod? Is UTEP better off with Dimel (formerly washed up HC) than we are with an unproven OC for a head coach. What makes those schools more desirable than TXST because it is doubtful either would have landed here if the timing had been right.
 
C

codestar

M&G Gift Contributor
Goldievirtuoso said:
This is definitely an angle that we need to seriously consider. I want, so badly, for DC to make immediate improvements to our training facilities. If he could we could objectively evaluate coaches better. As bad as our last couple of coaches have been, they haven't been able to overcome our own shortcomings, fair or not.
Click to expand...
I "like" spav as a person more than withers, I generally dislike withers attitude and question a lot of his choices. That being said I'm pretty sure that if instead of firing him, Larry gave him an increased budget, told him to go out and find a good OC, and addressed the issues with trainers and nutrition, we would have already had a winning season right now.

Lack of continuity and major scheme changes are rough.

When the firing happened we lost half our recruiting class that season ... which at the time DID have some of our first good looking highschool linemen on it. Withers with an OC like Peeler could have won football game with Willie Jones. He might not have had as high of a ceiling as I think spav *should* have if he dumped his brother and got more resources, but that is another matter.

No, the choices our AD have made are responsible for the prolonged sub 4 win season IMO.
 
C

codestar

M&G Gift Contributor
SWTRefugee said:
Which program is in better hands, ours with Spav or ULM’s with Terry Bowden? What makes equally moribund ULM desirable to Bowden and Rich Rod? Is UTEP better off with Dimel (formerly washed up HC) than we are with an unproven OC for a head coach. What makes those schools more desirable than TXST because it is doubtful either would have landed here if the timing had been right.
Click to expand...
Right now we are as undesirable as both of those schools. Would it be better to be undesirable and in debt? Why not use the money to improve our training facilities until the contract runs out and we can give him the boot. Like I said we have been losing anyways. Firing spav without fixing our issues would be cutting off our nose to spite our face.
 
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