Portal Kombat

[CatDaddy]

I still will never be able to wrap my head around how asinine it was for Spav to think it was a good idea to go full transfer extremist and outright abandon the HS recruiting ranks. Like I completely understand feeling like there was a need to go heavier on transfers to get a talent boost and try to "win now" (how's that worked btw), but to think there's not a single HS recruit in the State of Texas that can come in and help you win in basically 3 consecutive classes now is beyond lunacy. It's an absolute joke. I guarantee you that we could pluck out numerous examples of 1st or 2nd year players from TX at Out of State G5's and In-State FCS schools that are making an impact that we could have on our roster if we even halfway tried to recruit HS kids. I'm not sure if it was bred more out of laziness or ineptitude, but it's even more reason that our results under Spav are completely unacceptable.

 

[LTK5H]

I'll never understand why people don't get why he did it. We weren't getting quality HS players and with the portal, any HS player you develop into a quality player stands a really good chance of leaving.

The hand wringing over portal recruiting vs HS is ridiculous. TXHSFBHC are the most overrated group of blowhards. They damn sure weren't been sending talent our way the last 10yrs to begin with, so who gaf what they think?

I guarantee you that we could pluck out numerous examples of 1st or 2nd year players from TX at Out of State G5's and In-State FCS schools that are making an impact that we could have on our roster if we even halfway tried to recruit HS kids.

I'd challenge you to find 5 freshman/sophomores at OOS G5s that are at least All Conf Honorable Mention. If you can do that, I'd be curious to see how many of them are still at that school.

 

[CatDaddy]

I'll never understand why people don't get why he did it. We weren't getting quality HS players and with the portal, any HS player you develop into a quality player stands a really good chance of leaving.

The hand wringing over portal recruiting vs HS is ridiculous. TXHSFBHC are the most overrated group of blowhards. They damn sure weren't been sending talent our way the last 10yrs to begin with, so who gaf what they think?


I'd challenge you to find 5 freshman/sophomores at OOS G5s that are at least All Conf Honorable Mention. If you can do that, I'd be curious to see how many of them are still at that school.

Being an All-Conference player and contributing to winning football are not one and the same, especially when you factor in seniority plays a big role in those votes. That’s a ridiculous metric to judge contribution by. Young players can contribute beyond even being a starter. They help your depth. They help you on special teams.

It’s not like he went 70% Transfer/30% HS or even 80/20. He went full on 100/0. Nothing good ever comes from extremism. How many of these Transfer and JC kids has he brought in that have contributed absolutely nothing could have been scholarships given to a HS kid that could actually develop into someone who can contribute to this team whether it’s now or later? There’s a lot. Hit rate has not been great, neither have the on-field results so you tell me what we’ve gained by going down that road.

Have we not been getting quality HS kids because of some inherent issue with our program (oh btw don’t look now but some of our best players are still HS recruits Spav inherited even though he’s in Year 4) or is it because of some combination of lack of effort/poor evaluation/failure to develop? Because the UIW team that came in and embarrassed us last year had plenty of TX HS recruits on it. That national champion SHSU team had plenty of TX HS recruits on it. Almost all of whom would have chosen to come to TXST out of HS if given the opportunity. And don’t tell me that FCS recruits wouldn’t help us win because JMU has a team full of FCS recruits that whipped our asses and are running the Sun Belt so far.

The portal giveth and the portal taketh, but you can’t be scared to take HS kids out of fear they might leave if they’re good. Some might but a lot won’t. That’s why you have an actual head coach who knows how to build a program and culture with buy in. If you live off of transfers you’re living off of players that are available for a reason. Some have good reasons, but a lot of them are for bad reasons whether it’s ability/character/grades/injury/etc.

 

[LTK5H]

Being an All-Conference player and contributing to winning football are not one and the same, especially when you factor in seniority plays a big role in those votes. That’s a ridiculous metric to judge contribution by. Young players can contribute beyond even being a starter. They help your depth. They help you on special teams.

It's really not. We have plenty of guys providing depth and playing special teams from the portal. How is having a HS recruit in that role any better?

don’t look now but some of our best players are still HS recruits Spav inherited even though he’s in Year 4

Certainly are - Hill, Morris and Cooper right off the top of my head. Not only are they good now, but they all contributed from the get go. Those are the exceptions, not the rule. You can go back to Fran being hired and see a very low hit rate - only 50% of the players he signed ever saw the field, iirc.

Have we not been getting quality HS kids because of some inherent issue with our program or is it because of some combination of lack of effort/poor evaluation/failure to develop?

I'd argue it's primarily the inherent issue of the program sucking. It's hard af to recruit your way out of the cellar, especially when you don't have a charismatic HC with institutional support. The number 1 thing you have to have is a HC who can scheme and motivate players to play above their level, and we've never had that. It doesn't even have to be high above their level - just enough to win a couple more games against some other shitty teams will get you better recruits the next season.

Because the UIW team that came in and embarrassed us last year had plenty of TX HS recruits on it. That national champion SHSU team had plenty of TX HS recruits on it. Almost all of whom would have chosen to come to TXST out of HS if given the opportunity. And don’t tell me that FCS recruits wouldn’t help us win because JMU has a team full of FCS recruits that whipped our asses and are running the Sun Belt so far.

The portal giveth and the portal taketh, but you can’t be scared to take HS kids out of fear they might leave if they’re good. Some might but a lot won’t. That’s why you have an actual head coach who knows how to build a program and culture with buy in. If you live off of transfers you’re living off of players that are available for a reason. Some have good reasons, but a lot of them are for bad reasons whether it’s ability/character/grades/injury/etc.

These points have some merit, especially the bolded one. I don't buy the reasoning that just because JMU/UIW is good that all FCS recruits are good, and btw - they've got about 15 FBS transfers on their team, UIW has 10 and Sam has ALWAYS had plenty - 17 this year. But there are certainly good players at FCS that could contribute here....there are also better players in the portal we could have landed but we didn't, so it's a moot point. I definitely don't buy the idea that recruits would have signed here over SHSU or UIW just because we offered, or that they'd have been able to develop here vs at the FCS level.

 

[LTK5H]

I’ll add that the vast majority of our roster went to high school in Texas. What’s the difference between taking a kid out of high school, versus another college, when they’re from the same state?

 

[CatDaddy]

I’ll add that the vast majority of our roster went to high school in Texas. What’s the difference between taking a kid out of high school, versus another college, when they’re from the same state?

The point about depth and special teams is to point out that there are roles young HS recruits could have been contributing to winning besides being an all-conference player. Doesn’t mean it’s better with HS vs Portal. Rodgers, Revels, and Ezidore are other current examples as well. To say they are the exception not the rule is to imply that most HS recruits can’t/wont contribute. That’s a matter of evaluation/coaching not an inherent truth about those types of prospects.

I think you’re misconstruing what I’m saying as if I think we should be exclusively HS built or that the FCS programs that I named are built that way. That is definitely not the case. I firmly believe a healthy blend of HS, Transfer, and even some JC is the best formula to build a roster with. All 3 of those programs have done that. I am just anti-Transfer only. Also not saying all FCS recruits are good, but that their best players who were HS recruits are guys we could have signed, and I do believe that we win those recruiting battles because historically that has been the case.

If/When Spav is fired, I’d be very interested to do a roster study of that national champion SHSU team (that beat JMU) as a reference point to how that roster was constructed since I view Keeler as a legitimate candidate. How much of the 2 deep were HS/Transfer/JC, how many young players vs vets, etc. Because that team with only 63 scholarships would have done a similar number on us that JMU just did and would be a Sun Belt contender. They built that with a lot less to work with than we did.

 

[CatDaddy]

And the difference on HS vs Transfer is your HS guys have more invested in your program. That’s your foundation and where your culture comes from. It’s an intangible thing that’s hard to quantify, but it makes a difference.

 

[TxSt1992]

All I can say is that I'm tired of always being in the 100-140 range in the recruiting rankings every year under the Spavital regime. Say what you will but we at least made it to #92 with Withers in charge. Which must be pretty accurate since we always find ourselves in the 100-130 range in our play rankings. Forget about catching up to the other Texas universities in both AAC and CUSA, along with other SBC schools. Lets just get to double digits and try to move from there.

 

[Bobcat1]

Does anyone else picture “MORTAL KOMBAT”!! being said every time this thread is updated?

 

[LTK5H]

I think you’re misconstruing what I’m saying

This is what I'm arguing against:

I still will never be able to wrap my head around how asinine it was for Spav to think it was a good idea to go full transfer extremist and outright abandon the HS recruiting ranks.

The fact that you say you can't understand why.

You may not like the direction he took, but if you can't look at the history of the program, the caliber of the roster overall, the changing landscape of CFB and not get why someone would take the chance Spav did on the portal, then you see the program from a very different angle than I do. I don't think I'd have gone full transfer if I was in his shoes, but I completely see why he did it.

I see the failure in the execution, not the plan. In the same way you can point to 12 or 20 players from Sam or UIW that are better players than what's on our roster, I could point to 12 or 20 players that transferred to other G5s in the region who are better. I also think if there was a more professional culture around the team*, then you don't need HS guys who have been here for 4 and 5 years to have a strong locker room. To that point, Spav has really tried to go after guys w/ 3 and 4 years of eligibility remaining, for that purpose.

I do think there's a way to be portal heavy while still recruiting HS kids, and it makes me wonder WTF these coaches are doing all week. Most programs that are primarily recruiting HS spend a considerable portion of the week contacting HS players, coaches, watching film, texting, DMing, etc. Our guys aren't doing that, and they don't appear to be using that extra available time on gameplanning, so.... Were it my call, I'd work the high schools, and pay close attention to the guys who got away, making sure to always ask about them on return trips. Use those coaches for your portal networking and back channels. You can go back for years and I had a thread of every decent player leaving UT, aTm, Tech, because I think so many guys are bread filling out a class at the P5 level but could play G5 (GJ Kinne is in the potential HC thread - he was exactly that). Not all - I wasn't a fan of Urquidez, who I was right about, or Robinson, who has actually been getting reps (I didn't think that would happen). But I definitely think there are plenty of difference makers in the portal, we just aren't landing enough of them...or coaching them worth a shit when they do sign.


*it's not entirely fair to say from the outside, but it looks lax af in that locker room. I just don't get the vibe that there's anyone, much less everyone, that would be your guy in a bar brawl. No dogs. Happy to be here.

 

[Bullcat]

Who's making a list and checking it twice?

College Football's Best Quarterbacks in Transfer Portal (msn.com)

 

[franslasttwinkie]

 

[Bobcats2011]

Who's making a list and checking it twice?

College Football's Best Quarterbacks in Transfer Portal (msn.com)

I don’t see any more QBs deciding to transfer here unless they just want to ride the bench on a losing squad behind Hatcher. Really hoping Evans and Rogers don’t transfer out at end of this season.

 

[Mpf43]

I don’t see any more QBs deciding to transfer here unless they just want to ride the bench on a losing squad behind Hatcher. Really hoping Evans and Rogers don’t transfer out at end of this season.

Backup qb’s at txst who have never seen the field at two different schools do not get a lot of offers. Unless they go fcs i do not see the portal being their friend.

 

[Bobcat1]

Time to bump this thread as more and more athletes from other schools start popping up in the portal. Both Card & Kyron Drones (Baylor) are interesting, but I feel we are set at QB for four years with Evans/Rogers (Baylor not the ULM one who just got offered by us).

 

[LTK5H]

I love the idea that Evans and Rogers are superior to Card and Drones. Peak Taxi QB analysis.

 

[Bobcat1]

Three years max, after Spatcher wasted this year.

Did Rogers redshirt at Baylor?

 

[franslasttwinkie]

I love the idea that Evans and Rogers are superior to Card and Drones. Peak Taxi QB analysis.

Did we ever figure out it he actually believes whole heartedly what he posts to be true or if it is just trying to stir the pot and bang on a keyboard?

 

[LTK5H]

He has to believe it. There's no way he's keeping up that nutjob facade for 10 years now.

 

[GolfCat]

I and me are his favorite words.